Articles | Volume 19, issue 3
https://doi.org/10.5194/tc-19-1391-2025
© Author(s) 2025. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
National Weather Service Alaska Sea Ice Program: gridded ice concentration maps for the Alaskan Arctic
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- Final revised paper (published on 28 Mar 2025)
- Preprint (discussion started on 20 Jun 2024)
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
Comment types: AC – author | RC – referee | CC – community | EC – editor | CEC – chief editor
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-1813', Anonymous Referee #1, 04 Jul 2024
- AC1: 'Reply on RC1', Astrid Pacini, 05 Nov 2024
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RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-1813', Florence Fetterer, 20 Jul 2024
- AC2: 'Reply on RC2', Astrid Pacini, 05 Nov 2024
Peer review completion
AR – Author's response | RR – Referee report | ED – Editor decision | EF – Editorial file upload
ED: Reconsider after major revisions (further review by editor and referees) (18 Nov 2024) by Yevgeny Aksenov
AR by Astrid Pacini on behalf of the Authors (18 Dec 2024)
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ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (31 Dec 2024) by Yevgeny Aksenov
RR by Anonymous Referee #1 (13 Jan 2025)
ED: Publish subject to technical corrections (13 Jan 2025) by Yevgeny Aksenov
AR by Astrid Pacini on behalf of the Authors (21 Jan 2025)
Author's response
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Review of
National Weather Service Alaska Sea Ice Program: Gridded ice concentration maps for the Alaskan Arctic
by
Pacini, A., et al.
Summary:
This manuscript introduces gridded sea ice concentration maps available since 2007 from the National Weather Service Alaska Sea Ice Program for the Alaskan Arctic. The main content of the manuscript is the evaluation of this new product (called ASIP henceforth) by means of comparing it with independent data. These are ship-based observations and saildrone images, the MASIE ice extent product and a high-resolution sea ice concentration product. The comparison shown focusses a lot onto so-called parity plots in which the hit and false alarm rates of binary ice information provided and/or derived from the products is compared with each other. Conclusions are drawn from these plots; in addition to these the authors also look a bit into the comparison of the actual sea ice concentration values and take a look at the location o the ice edge and how this intercompares between the different products usd.
I am listing a number of general concerns first. Subsequently you find a number of specific comments which in part detail the general concerns further. I also have a few editoral comments / typos.
General Comments:
GC1: I have a major concern with the scientific rationale and motivation to evaluate a product (your product) providing more information than just binary ice / no ice mainly by means of reducing the information content to compare it with evaluation data that (only!) partly also come as binary information. This I really don't understand and find it neither convincingly explained in the manuscript nor do I find compelling evidence in the manuscript that doing the evaluation this way really adds value and provides credible and useful results.
GC2: The manuscript is not convincing with respect to the description of the steps that are undertaken to i) grid all data into one common grid and to ii) explain how data sets are reduced in their information content from sea ice concentration to binary information - including the assciated uncertainty that is involved in this conversion process.
GC3: I am not convinced that the suite of parity plots that is presented are the optimal solution to show the quality of the new data set that you are evaluating in your manuscript. While I believe 1-2 specific parity plots could stay - especially when these are used to compare data that are per se binary, i.e. the saildrone data and MASIE, I very much recommend to work more with 2-dimensional histograms such as the one shown in Figure 6 and work along the lines of computing mean and median differences (also the absolute ones) and their standard deviations. This appears to me a more quantitative way to evaluate the ASIP product in its current form.
GC4: In case the parity plots stay as a central element of the manuscript I recommend to reshape them such that they use the space given in the manuscript more efficiently - i.e. decrease the block size but increase the font size.
GC5: The Discussion section should be before the Summary section. The discussion section should furthermore discuss in substantially more depth the limitations of the data sets involved - as laid out in my respective specific comment.
GC6: I find room for improvement in the structure of the manuscript. I find that data, methodology and results are in part quite mixed and call for a better organization in that respect.
Specific Comments:
L19: "in-situ asset distribution" --> Not immediately clear what you mean with this. What do you mean by "asset" in this context?
L56: I suggest to add at least Lavergne et al., 2019, https://doi.org/10.5194/tc-13-49-2019 to this list since it adds a novel approach. Also, you might want to point towards the Ivanova et al., 2014 10.1109/TGRS.2014.2310136 / 2015 doi:10.5194/tc-9-1797-2015 papers here since these provide a good overview of the different existing approaches.
L64: "synthetic aperture radar" --> There is a growing number of sea ice cover / sea ice concentration products based on SAR data; recent years have seen a boost in such maps thanks to more frequent coverage of the polar regions with SAR images and advanced computational tools. I was wondering whether you should not come up with a few examples of such tools / products for completeness. There is for instance the "MAGIC" tool (see Leigh et al., 2014, 10.1109/TGRS.2013.2290231 ) and there are other products, e.g. DTU_AI4Arctic.
L68-70: "Operational ... products." --> I agree only partly to this statement because operational ice charts - at least those of most ice services - use polygons to provide information of groups of dominant ice classes. In addition these only provide ice concentration ranges of, e.g., 10% resolution.
L76: You refer to "many ... techniques used" but you do not further refer to them. Is this on purpose? Because, in what follows you rather report on the results of evaluation studies dealing with two such different products. And in contrast to the CIS sea ice charts the MASIE product is not an operational sea ice product that can be used for navigation but is simply another form of deriving the sea ice extent. I was therefore wondering whether first mentioning a few more "real" ice charts, such as from NIC, AARI, and the Norwegian, Danish and Finish ice services would not make sense.
I note that it would be helpful to provide the period (i.e. number of years) that were used in the two evaluation studies mentioned.
L82/83: It might make sense to emphasize that this larger sea ice extent reported for MASIE by Meier et al. (2015) is particularly large / pronounced during summer melt, right?
L147-153: Have these maps ever been compared to AARI or NIC charts? If not why not?
L175-177: "Polygons ... a larger polygon." --> This I don't understand ... Does this mean that if there is a large polygon containing 70-90% sea ice concentration within which there is a smaller polygon with 10-30% sea ice concentration will result in the entire area (small + large polygon) to be displayed as 10-30% sea ice concentration? Please modify your writing such that it becomes more clear.
Table 1: There is no SIC value in the last row. Does this mean that a value of 100% is never given - also not for landfast sea ice? This reads a bit strange I have to admit.
249-252: While details of the respective data analysis can be found in the Chiodi et al paper I would like to see a more balanced approach (when compared to the ship-based observations) and ask for some basic description about the spatial and temporal resolution of these saildrone data, the observations height and approximate "footprint" and information like this.
L223/224: Worby and Comiso (2004) studied Antarctic sea ice and hence "evaluated" the ASPeCt observations; ASSIST is something which was combined with ASPeCt substantially later, kind of in parallel to the ASPeCt / ASSIST data set that is available, e.g. here: https://www.cen.uni-hamburg.de/en/icdc/data/cryosphere/seaiceparameter-shipobs.html
L239/240: How is this conversion done? Please give a description here or refer to the place in the paper where the respective information is given.
L241/242: I am not sure the mentioned "subjectivity" is something you need to remove - for two reasons. First of all, also the ice charts contain a certain degree of subjectivity. Secondly, the ASPeCt / ASSIST sea ice observations have a reported uncertainty which is similar to the one you reported in the previous section about the ASIP data set; it is around 5-10%. So the uncertainties are the same and I do not see added value to assess ASIP with binary ice/no-ice values.
L260-263: "It utilizes ... stereographic grids" --> This needs to be rewritten. The framing information is:
- AMSR2 is a multi-frequency passive microwave sennsor that provided brightness temperatures at a number of different frequencies; one of these is 89GHz.
- The ARTIST algorithm has been developed for SSM/I data (Kaleschke et al., 2001), adopted to AMSR-E data (Spreen et al., 2008) and then applied to AMSR2 data - without further tie point modification as far as I know.
- Sea ice concentration data are derived using the brightness temperature polarization difference of the 89 GHz channels (not from "swath brightness data").
- I invite you to check whether the brightness temperatures aren't first gridded into the polarstereographic grid before the SIC is computed. You might want to check the documentation.
And as a comment: You use this ASI algorithm SIC data for kind of an "evaluation". While this is of course fine I was wondering whether you can report about any validation studies that report about the accuracy of the AMSR2 SIC product provided by the University of Bremen. How reliable is this data set? It is credible to use this data for an evaluation?
L275: So you regrid the MASIE data but you do not regrid the AMSR2 SIC data? At least you did not comment on that in the previous paragraph.
L280-282: Again my question why? Why did you not use the concentration values as provided?
And: How did you do the ice / no ice conversion for these data sets?
L294/295: While it is true that historically 15% has been used as the SIC threshold to define where there is ice, I find your approach not well motivated. ASIP provides non-binary observations (see Table 1) and these should be evaluated - not the binary value.
In addition, seeing that you included MASIE which uses a 40% threshold to define between ice and no-ice, I get confused about the credibility of your results. This does not look like a well-thought through intercomparison approach, I am sorry.
L296-298: "We note ... with ice" --> I don't understand this sentence.
L313-319 ... what is given here is essentially a description of the methodology. I suggest to have a more clear structure in the paper, with a Data section, a Methods section and then a Results section.
L319-323: This information actually belongs to the section where you described the saildrone observations / data.
L327/328: I don't understand how data products (e.g. ASIP or MASIE) can "report" an accuracy. Please re-consider your writing.
L328/330: I don't think it is a credible approach to refer to over- or under-prediction of ice when the respective SIC ranges that you are considering here are as large as 40% or 60%.
What happens to these n=13 or n=12 (Q3) and n=23 (Q2) values if you would change the threshold value of 40% used by 5% or 10%, i.e. the uncertainty of the involved products?
Figure 5:
- The font size used is quite small.
- It would be helpful to have Q1 to Q4 denoted again in at least one of the panels.
- In the caption you write "in-situ observation ... (non-binary)". I am confused ... so here you binned the ice products but not the evaluation data? Why? This is inconsistent.
L341/342: "but at this point framework" ---> Why? I doubt that this is a useful comparsison and that it provides a credible result.
L348: "binned at ..." --> To me this looks as if this would result in 11 bins but Figure 6 contains 12 bins at both the x and the y-axis. Also the annotation with 10, 20, 30 ... does not fit well with the respective bin boundaries of 5, 15, 25, 35, 45% et cet. Please check and if need be correct.
L353-359: "Subsequently ... by AMSR2" --> I don't think that this step, particularly in this over-simplified fashion, adds value to what is shown in Fig. 6. I suggest you compute the overall difference and its standard deviation (or the RMSE) and to also compute the mean absolute difference. Both you can report in a separate table or in the text.
L370+ / Figure 7: I don't find this additional parity plot useful. The information one can take from this figure one can as well simply take from Figure 6.
L404: "where the products most strongly disagree" --> Which you could again nicely derive from Fig. 6 by computing the mean SIC difference and the mean absolute SIC difference using the in-situ SIC range of 15-80%.
L406: I don't understand what this "accuracy rate" is. Are you computing the SIC difference? Possibly not because you seem to refer to the ice edge only. So what are you looking at here? The accuracy of which geophysical parameter? And why "rate"
L410-413: Sorry, but I don't understand what you did here. I see an accuracy rate given in percent at the y-axis (in %) but I don't know of which parameter and I see a distance from the ice edge in km (possibly the center of the grid cells are taken - even though I recall that you were reprojecting data onto a 0.05 degree grid ...). But what do the curves tell me?
L422/423: I don't understand the purpose of this 3x3 pixel window smoothing. Why do you want to remove small-scale features? What is the motivation / scientific rationale behind this step?
L423-426: Please check the scientific literature with respect to the ice edge delination as carried out by you. There should be several papers published that have done this (e.g. Cortenay Strong et al. "On the definition of marginal ice zone width", Journal of Atmospheric and Oceanic Technology, 34, 2017). You might want to check whether your idea is similar to their's and cite and/or check the existing literature for more examples to back up your approach better.
L450/451++: "This is likely ..." --> maybe yes, but not necessarily because at the ice concentration ranges (around 15% and around 40%) you are considering here, the melt pond fraction on the sea ice should be rather small because ice floes have disintegrated and quite some amount of the ice encountered might be brash ice.
I invide the authors to check the available literature about other possibilities to explain the observed discrepancies. There has been a study about why MASIE shows ice while other products don't, for instance.
In general, what should follow here is a discussion into the direction of the credibility of the approaches compared. Influencing factors are the grid resolution and/or the resolution of the input data. This applies to ASIP, MASIE and AMSR2-ASI. Please carefully check how ASI treats potential spurious ice along the ice edge due to the elevated weather effect one has to deal with at 89 GHz. If I am not mistaken, then the ASI algorithm is actually kind of a hybrid product where "bad" sea ice is filtered away by using other, coarser resolution SIC data.
Another issue you might want to discuss is the tendency for ice analysts to, as a first guess, take the conditions of the previous day - especially if there are not enough (high-resolution) satellite data of the day in question at hand. How often is the information given in the ASIP or MASIE product actually based on coarse resolution satellite data from passive microwave sensors (e.g. 25 km)?
Another issue not touched by you is the fact that ASIP uses polygons and that you are dealing with a sea ice concentration range. Neither the location and extent of the polygon nor the sea ice concentration range in these are overly well defined or FAIR in the sense that repeated analysis would result in exactly the same result; it is not transparent.
Finally, how much are ASIP maps generated in the sense to provide maximum safety for navigation and therefore - similarly to the various ice charts available - come up with a rather conservative estimate, likely tending to overestimate the true ice conditions for the sake of maritime safety?
L485-486: "Since the ... " --> Ok, but how much "hand-waving" is involved into drawing the polygons' boundaries in comparison to a well-defined 3.125 km gridded SIC product as provided from AMSR2 using ASI?
L488/489: "...where they have been observed" --> exactly. So what is with, e.g., the next day, when there is no high-resolution information available but only a AMSR2 6 GHz 50 km footprint-based SST estimate because there are clouds? Such a day-to-day hetereogeneity is not helpful and combining different spatial scales of information requires particular care when it comes to assess uncertainties. I am pretty sure that the ASIP and to some degree also the MASIE product stitch different scale-observations together and the credibility of the data product can change quickly from one pixel to the next and from one day to the next.
L491: See my earlier comment about the work Worby and Comiso did. It is the Antarctic and it is ASPeCt. You must not use it to refer to ASSIST.
L491/492: "recall that ... at that time" --> While this is true, the ship is moving during the 10-minutes observation time, hence elongating the observed area towards an elliptically shaped region centered along the ship's track. In addition, if I am not mistaken, you did not compare single ASSIST observations but looked into daily averages?!?
L492-502: All true and possibly also discussed to some extent in Kern et al. (2019), right?
L503-511: What I would strongly recommend is to suggest further evaluation of ASIP with independent observations of the sea ice conditions from Sentinel satellites (Sentinel-1 SAR and Sentinel-2 MSI). These provide a spatial representation of the conditions at the ice edge / in the MIZ and potentially would be a more solid basis for any further evaluation.
Editoral Comments / Typos:
L60: "Steffan" needs to be "Steffen"
L64: "imagery" --> "imagers"
Figure 1: I suggest to increase the size of the panels a bit to enhance readability. Alternatively, increasing the font size would help as well.
L130: I guess this was August 21 and not August 12? Where was the image taken? Could you indicate that in one of the maps?
L221: As far as I know the two Kern et al. papers are dealing with both the Antarctic and the Arctic - especially the one from 2020.
Table 3: The way to specify inclusivity in values ranges would be [15% to 80%] or [0-40%[ or ]80 to 100%]
L345: "double triple" --> typo
Figure 6:
Fonts at the legend should be larger.
I suggest to change "% of time" to "count"
I also suggest to write "sea ice concentration" instead of just "ice" when denoting the axes.
Figure 8:
Please increase the font sizes.
Figure 10: Please provide the unit of the distances.